Trumpeter P-47D Razorback "Eileen"

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jkim
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Re: Trumpeter P-47D Razorback "Eileen"

Post by jkim »

Naw, I'm still waiting for the Detail & Scale book to arrive, among other things. I have multiple items coming in an order from Poland that seem to be stuck in transit including brass gun barrels, the HGW harnesses, and Eduard canopy masks.

I've been doing some online research on all things Thunderbolt including colors. One of the references I am using is the IPMS Stockholm website, which came in handy for my Corsair build. This is what is says about the P-47...
The subject of cockpit colours of the P-47 seems to have thus far defied conclusive analysis. Surviving P-47s and contemporary photos show a dark green shade in the cockpit, similar or possibly equal to Dull Dark Green. This is in contrast with the available Erection and Maintenance manuals which invariably call for green-tinted primer in cockpit areas.

The 1944 Erection and Maintenance Instructions covering P-47C, G and D state that ”cockpits shall be finished with one coat of tinted zinc chromate primer to eliminate glare resulting from untinted primer.” As can bee seen, the use of ”tinted primer” is not consistent with the Dark Dull Green found in other evidence.

Perhaps an explanation is to be found in the formula of tinted primer given in the above manual. Nowhere in the above document is the tinted Zinc Chromate specified to match ANA Interior Green. Instead, the specifications include a rudimentary mixing formula, described as one gallon Black to one gallon Yellow Zinc Chromate primer. The formula is probably an error. If the intended colour was to be Interior Green, the document should have stated 1/10 gallon Black to 1 gallon Zinc Chromate, consistent with other Erection and Maintenance documents of the period.

A possibility remains that Republic followed the instructions to the letter, obtaining some sort of black-green colour for the cockpit areas. Other hypotheses claim that the colour used could be Bronze Green or Dull Dark Green. Another mystery

Another conventional wisdom states that Curtiss-built P-47Gs differed from Republic-build P-47Ds by having Interior Green (actually, Curtiss Cockpit Green) in the cockpit and wheel well areas. However, this does not seem to be consistent with examination of wrecked P-47G parts, which show Dark Dull Green in the cockpit.

Since there were less than 200 P-47Gs made and they were only used for training in the US, this controversy is of limited interest to modellers, which would usually be interested in Republic-made Thunderbolts.

According to the Erection and Maintenance manuals, the fuselage decking under the bubble canopy of the P-47D from the windscreen to the area aft of the cockpit armour plating, was to be painted Dark Olive Drab 41, the same colour being specified for the anti-glare area of the forward fuselage. Armour plating was specified to the same colour as the interior finish of the cockpit.

Another yet unresolved mystery is the turtleback area beneath the rearmost cockpit window of the razorback versions. Many variants have been called for, but the most likely choices (based on the available contemporary colour photographs) are Olive Drab for the early camouflaged aircraft, and some kind of medium grey further down in the production.

According to factory instructions, the fuselage decking inside the canopy on bubbletop Thunderbolts was to be painted in Olive Drab, with the inside of the canopy framing in flat black. The rear armour plate in the cockpit was to be painted to match the cockpit interior colour.

Interiors of P47 aircraft cowlings were natural metal. The aluminium in this area was anodised giving a darker and very dull greyish appearance. The engine firewall was left unpainted. Engine mounts were primed in Zinc Chromate Green.

All other interior surfaces of the fuselage with exception of the firewall were finished in Zinc Chromate Yellow. This included also wheel wells, undercarriage covers and armament compartments in the wings.

Undercarriage legs were painted Dark Olive Drab 41 on camouflaged aircraft. This practice continued over to at least some natural metal machines. At some point in production the requirement seems to have changed to allow an Aluminium lacquer finish to be used.
I have a bottle of AK Real Colors Dark Dull Green ready to test as well as their Bronze Green.

A little more work on the P-47 to report. In preparation of adding some of the Eduard photoetch, the raised details on the cockpit floor need to be cut off. The box, I believe, is the fuel selector and the other is some sort of lever with an actuating rod/wire running to the back of the cockpit.
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The fuel selector looks like it is mounted on the side of the circuit panel.
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So I scratched something up using brass sheet and a section of plastic tubing.
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The cut areas are covered with PE pieces. The lever is also from the PE set but I've not yet fabricated the actuating rod/wire.
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I like the detail of Eduard's version of the rear cockpit bulkhead. But the headrest on a spacer arrangement doesn't seem to line up with the photos I've been looking at.
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So I decided to use the Eduard bulkhead without the headrest portion.
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Next, I folded up the gun sight mount. It's actually upside down in the photo!
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Instead of the kit part, I used a spare Type II RAF gunsight from Barracuda.
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John aka JKim
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tempestjohnny
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Re: Trumpeter P-47D Razorback "Eileen"

Post by tempestjohnny »

I've always used bronze green on my T-Bolts. But the dark green argument is plausible
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jkim
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Re: Trumpeter P-47D Razorback "Eileen"

Post by jkim »

There is definitely room for interpretation when it comes to interior colors of the P-47.

A bit of detail work on my day off... the reflector glass is actually supposed to be oval in shape but I can't cut an oval that small so it's going to be circular instead.
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Here is what the gun sight looks like in place and covered with a coat of primer (Mr Primer Surfacer 1000). I added a couple of wires coming out of the mounting bracket.
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I added some detail to the otherwise plain sides of the Bendix-Scintilla magneto.
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Here is a look at the Eduard photoetch instrument panel. On full display is the noticeable texture of the painted surface... it's quite distracting, in my opinion.
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Each instrument has what appears to be a drop of clear gloss to simulate glass although ideally it should be a flat level surface, not curved.
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Trying out a new clear flat finish...
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The front panel was sprayed with the clear flat and this dramatically diminishes the texture effect. The two instruments hanging off the bottom of the backing panel were also sprayed with the clear flat and you can see the difference that the flat coat makes. I ALWAYS spray my Eduard pre-painted parts with a flat coat!
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The assembled Eduard instrument panel looks pretty good but we'll have to compare it to the Yahu panel, which is enroute.
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Medicman71
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Re: Trumpeter P-47D Razorback "Eileen"

Post by Medicman71 »

Interesting. Never though about spraying flat on the PE. :hmm:
Mike

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KSaarni
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Re: Trumpeter P-47D Razorback "Eileen"

Post by KSaarni »

The Yahu instrumentpanel is qualitywise on a totally different level.

I think you will never ever look in the direction of Eduard, if there is an option for a Yahu IP. Curious to hear your opinion of Yahu.

I bought my 1st Yahu IP back in 2016, impressive even if it's in 1/72 scale...

https://www.spamodeler.com/forum/viewto ... 591#p35591

- Kari
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jkim
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Re: Trumpeter P-47D Razorback "Eileen"

Post by jkim »

Frustrated at the delay of couple of shipments including the Yahu panel. There are a multitude of other things that I can proceed with without working on the cockpit so I found one of those today. I noticed that this port was not molded completely.
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The shape was kind of weird too, as the horizontal lines followed the curvature of the forward fuselage. I don't have any parallelogram templates so the new one will have to be square. First, I fill in the old panel lines with black CA glue.
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Shot with some CA activator, it is ready to sand.
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The template of the panel is placed on the model and secured in place with tape. For me, this is the most important step. I learned from experience that holding the template with just your fingers is a recipe for a shoddy scribing job.
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Using a sewing needle chucked into a pin vise, I scribe the new panel. Lightly at first and then with a little more pressure as the groove deepens. I'm going through both plastic and the harder CA glue so it is important to keep constant pressure on the needle as it goes around the template. If the needle gets caught on something, don't force it through. Instead, trace around in the opposite direction to see if you can get through that spot smoothly. The horizontal line that you see within the new panel is a pencil guide mark that I used to guide re-placement of the template after the first attempt.
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Once you are able to make complete circuits around the panel in both directions, the template can be removed. The new panel is cleaned up by tracing the panel with needle, giving it a light sanding and using a stiff paint brush to remove the sanding burrs and dust. Lightly running Tamiya Extra Thin cement into the panel lines can also help to smooth them out.
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With all of the visual interference from the old panel lines, it's hard to see what I've done so I spray a light coat of primer to check my work.
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After the primer is dry, I can replace the circular fasteners with a beading tool.
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speedgraflex
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Re: Trumpeter P-47D Razorback "Eileen"

Post by speedgraflex »

Beautiful scribing! Thanks for the step by step. I remember checking the double O ring engine mounts on the P-47 awhile back. I’m sure you have checked out the Air corps restoration for potentially useful photos! I don’t think securing the engine with the ducting is the best idea, but we aren’t dealing with real world weights and stresses. Your thoughts are precise; your work is a pleasure to follow. All the best!

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Bruce / SPEEDGRAFLEX
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jkim
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Re: Trumpeter P-47D Razorback "Eileen"

Post by jkim »

Thank you Bruce! Yes, I've gone through the AirCorps Aviation's restoration of the Razorback... pretty impressive stuff! And I've also signed up at Aircorps Library to see if I can find any useful tidbits. The engine will be enclosed by the painted engine cowling so I am not really bothering with the rear of the engine past the firewall. My main concern is beefing up the connection between the engine/cowling assembly and the fuselage beyond those two exhaust stub connections.

Here is the engine temporarily housed in the cowling, which is a pretty positive fit due to the exact shape of the front frame around the engine. The engine is attached to the firewall at those two D-shaped holes and nothing else. The firewall can be solidly glued to the fuselage. Without the rear engine assembly, you can see that the there is a possibility of securing the rear of the back cylinder base to the firewall... maybe with magnets?
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While I think about that, I fashioned up a small oil sump and scavenge pipe using a bit of styrene and copper wire.
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The oil sump is nestled under the bottom front cylinder head.
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Making sure that the oil sump does not interfere with the front frame.
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I'm using lead wire for the ignition wiring cables. There are two additional wiring connections at the back of each distributor, hence the gap in the harness spacing. The harness and the distributors are from Vector and obviously designed to be used together.
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I noticed that the closed cowling flaps (top) are missing a panel line.
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I also added a little triangular shim to the edge of the cowl flaps so that they would sit flush. Notice the very faint panel lines. I've already started to re-scribe these. There is just enough of a depression to guide my scriber along without any guide tape... living dangerously!
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The Curtis Electric prop has been cleaned up. I thinned the blades down and filled in the depressions that were molded onto the cuffs.
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speedgraflex
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Re: Trumpeter P-47D Razorback "Eileen"

Post by speedgraflex »

John, I was thinking in more conventional terms to add a centered post with a secondary insert but I checked online and looks like Doog built this kit in 2012. According to him, once the engine is fitted to the cowl there are no longer issues. He is not very specific - I find his build logs more fantasias on a theme and not a detailed guide so take his thoughts for what they are worth. Good luck! Aaaand also I just think your detail shots are beautiful, truly!
Bruce / SPEEDGRAFLEX
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mustang1989
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Re: Trumpeter P-47D Razorback "Eileen"

Post by mustang1989 »

Coming along nicely on this one. The cockpits in these things are HUGE!!! You could dang near play a basketball game in there. :grin:
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