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Re: Frog 1/72 Dornier Do 17 Z, DN 51, 2/LeLv 46, Noljakka, 1

Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2019 5:06 pm
by speedgraflex
KennyX wrote:Whoops! I misspoke!

Lacquer. That I understand a bit better. I use lacquer primer and clears sometimes too.

Now, what you posted about dope is fascinating stuff. And I recon what better way to get that down than by using a lacquer of some type. It makes sense.

As to enamels, I like that Testor’s Model Master stuff. It dry brushes like a dream for me. And it smells good too. Reminds me of my childhood, brush painting that silly Airwolf model and totally botching it.
All good, all good.

It is tough enough to keep straight who is using what on what. I am not even sure yet what the final finish should even look like.

Image

Okaaay.

Re lacquers, enamels, etc. I was hoping to use up some acrylics as well on this project... we shall see. The last of the rattle cans are still rattling around somewhere... time to decant and try out the likely candidates. Yellow is gonna be lacquer. Silver dope is gonna be lacquer too.

Re: Frog 1/72 Dornier Do 17 Z, DN 51, 2/LeLv 46, Noljakka, 1

Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2019 5:40 pm
by KSaarni
speedgraflex wrote:Title/Subject Change:

Image

Dedicated to Kari Saarni, fellow modeler and good friend. You are a source of encouragement and inspiration as well.
Bruce,

I feel honored, I am seriously very touched of this and very grateful of your decision to change from 5K + AS8 to BC+NE aka DN-51

Thank you!

- Kari

PS. I will very soon add some background information of DN-51 and its crew... Stay tuned...

Re: Frog 1/72 Dornier Do 17 Z, DN 51, 2/LeLv 46, Noljakka, 1

Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2019 5:46 pm
by jkim
Tamiya AS-12 makes a good approximation of a doped surface. Metallic but not too shiny.

Re: Frog 1/72 Dornier Do 17 Z, DN 51, 2/LeLv 46, Noljakka, 1

Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2019 6:03 pm
by BsYamato
Bruce, the kit is the same of your link, the new box with finnish decals Is this:
https://www.hobby.dn.ua/icm-icm-72308-w ... 90857.html

Re: Frog 1/72 Dornier Do 17 Z, DN 51, 2/LeLv 46, Noljakka, 1

Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2019 6:13 pm
by KSaarni
Bruce,

Still, I am very touched that you changed to a Finnish subject. We don't really see them (ever) on SPAM.

So the least I could do for you, was to do some research of the DN-51.. A journey that took close to 4 hrs for me to go through.. but during these 4 hrs I learned myself a little bit more of DN-51 and the heroes that flew this bird until its end.. with a mixed ending of joy, sadness and perhaps some heroism
----

Dornier Do-17 Z-1
Werk. Nr. 3323
Original markings BC + NE
Arrived to Finland on the 5th of January 1942 after being in service in Luftwaffe for 91:55 hrs.
Handed over to FAF ( 2/LeLv 46) on the 9th of February 1942 around 5 AM
Shot down August 1st 1944, while returning from a bombing mission.
Total flying time in FAF: 343 hrs and 30 minutes


The fatal mission on Tuesday the 1st of August
DN-51 had been on a mission to bomb four different bridges south of Salonjärvi. No information regarding the success of the raid. 2nd Lieutenant Lars Von Hellens was the pilot of the plane. Other crew members were: Observer 2nd Lieutenant Alpo Lappalainen, telegraphist Sergeant 1st class Aarre Salminen and gunner Sergeant Jouko Ilkka.

The return flight towards Rissala airfield started well, no AA activity at all. While DN-51 was about to fly over the front, about two miles from it, a sudden loud bang was heard. At the same time it was noticed, that the right engine had received a hit and started to smoke. A very strong air suction was formed in the cockpit. Only now the crew saw a Russian Airacobra fighter flying around them. The crew started preparation to parachute from DN-51. The engine started to smoke even more and the plane started to turn slowly to right.

The bottom hatch was opened and first Lappalainen, the observer jumped. Immediately after him sergeant Ilkka and then the pilot von Hellens exited. The telegraphist Salminen waited for additional 10 seconds, but when the fire from the engine spread to the fuselage, he jumped as well.

The entire crew were safely out of the plane. While "hanging" in their parachutes, they could see their workhorse, DN-51 rotating clockwise around them, slowly descending towards the ground. The enemy fighter was following the bomber until the bomber crashed burning in the forest. The crew was still "hanging" in the air, but the Airacobra did not have any interested towards them, but instead it flew away. However, from the ground they heard and could see infantery soldiers shooting a few shots towards them. Luckily without causing any harm,

Salminen, the telegraphist who exited last the plane, dropped down in between own and the enemy lines. In 20 minutes time he was safe on the Finnish side. Salminen could brief that everyone had been able to exit the plane, so now the waiting for the remaining crew started.

Ilkka, the gunner who had jumped as second, fell in a tree immediately next to a russian artillery observer.. Ilkka could loosen himself off the tree and climb down. The russian artillery observer, who was very very big, spoke continuosly into the radio but strechted his hand back and forth towards Ilkka and shouting something in russian to him. Ilkka answered in Finnish; "I don't have anything to tell you" and started to run towards own lines. While coming closer to the own lines, shooting started from there.. He threw himself on the ground and stayed low... until he fall asleep ! He woke up when he heard finnish voices saying "there is no one here". It was a small patrol that had been sent to search for the crew. He run to them, greeted and after some hours he was also safe on the own side.

Lappalainen, the observer who had jumped first out of the plane was of course furthest behind the enemy lines, roughly 2 miles from safety. For him it took a full day to get back. A dangerous task. He was followed by a russian search patrol, but they could not find him. When darkness fell again, he started to be closer to the frontline. While slowly crawling on the ground, suddenly someone shouted in his direction in finnish: "Stop, who is there?" He shouted back, "This is a Finnish airman, are there any Finns there and if there is, don't shoot!". No one shot and at the same moment was Lappalainen also safe on the own side... and received a very heart warming welcoming from the infantry soldiers.

And what about the pilot, Lars von Hellens, what happened to him ?

No other crew member knew more about him, other than that they saw him leaving the plane and that the parachute had opened accordingly. However, a enemy radio message was intercepted, telling that the pilot had first been wounded and then later fallen. But what exactly happened to Lars, in the woods of Loimola is still a big mystery. To his fellow pilots he had several times told, that he will never ever surrender to the enemy. He had always on every flight two hand guns with him.

We can only imagine what might have happened. What we can be pretty sure of, he did not surrender but fought to the last bullet.
He is MIA, what I can tell based on my research ... his body has not been found or at least not been identified. He has probably a grave.. but is still it in the woods on the enemy side or burried in a graveyard as an unknown soldier, that we don't know.

What struck so much, when looking at the pictures of these young men, how ordinary they all look like.

***

Below the map of the last flight (my interpretation) + pictures of the last crew.

The flight path
Image

Pilot 2nd Lieutenant Lars von Hellens
(far left, picture taken around 20th-21st of June 1944, midsummer festivities.. )
Image

Observer 2nd Lieutenant Alpo Lappalainen:
(playing around with parachutes)
Image

Telegraphist Sergeant 1st class Aarre Salminen :
(in the front)
Image

Gunner Sergeant Jouko Ilkka:
(in the middle)
Image

- Kari

Re: Frog 1/72 Dornier Do 17 Z, DN 51, 2/LeLv 46, Noljakka, 1

Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2019 6:30 pm
by Stikpusher
A good tale of the final lesion of that aircraft. I’m surprised that almost all of the crew were able to evade capture and return to their lines. The pilot’s tale sounds like that of so many US airmen in Vietnam. Last known to be alive, but ultimate fate unknown.

Re: Frog 1/72 Dornier Do 17 Z, DN 51, 2/LeLv 46, Noljakka, 1

Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2019 8:07 pm
by speedgraflex
Hello Kari! What incredible information. I thank you profusely for such invaluable research, the extraordinary crafting of narrative and photographic discovery. The faces of these men will always remain first in memory. There is something so incredibly touching about the pilot with his vow to never be captured falling farthest behind. There is something so relatable in the observer and gunner’s focused escape from capture with enemies in pursuit. For some reason this reminds me of being lost in the vastness of the desert on a film shoot and thinking calmly that the line between living and dying is not all that wide, really. Here these men were playing for high stakes after they were shot down. Their fortunes turned as the plane cartwheeled downward. They were left to live by their wits, each one alone, with their training and willpower to guide them.

FINNISH AIR FORCE MUSEUM DIGITAL ARCHIVE

To celebrate the 40th anniversary of the museum, we have opened a digital archive with more than 8,000 photos and airplane manuals for the public. The archive will also be complemented by new digitizations in the future. Low resolution versions of the photos have been uploaded.

https://drive.google.com/drive/mobile/f ... sp=sharing

Re: Frog 1/72 Dornier Do 17 Z, DN 51, 2/LeLv 46, Noljakka, 1

Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2019 10:13 pm
by Floki
Thanks for that info Kari, a build is always better for me when I can tie a name and face to it, one reason I enjoy aircraft more than armor it's alot easier to find who crewed them.

Re: Frog 1/72 Dornier Do 17 Z, 5K + AS8, KG3, October 1941.

Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2019 11:12 pm
by Stikpusher
speedgraflex wrote:



Please do watch and let me know if Michael Mann has the armor correct for the period... I always wondered about that detail and now I know whom to ask...
Well I had a look at this. Based upon the dialog, this supposedly takes place in late 1941. If that is the case, the vehicles are correct, but the paint jobs are not. Not to mention the basic premise of putting an AT gun section into a defensive position in a friendly “(Axis) Allied” country. Hundreds of miles from the front and seeing how the Soviets were teetering upon the edge of complete defeat, completely unnecessary.

Re: Frog 1/72 Dornier Do 17 Z, DN 51, 2/LeLv 46, Noljakka, 1

Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 1:21 am
by speedgraflex
Fantastic review, Carlos. Thank you so much!